New DJ's learning & Serato...Whats your take?

[djnickhustle]

Real quick, I just wanted to post up and ask people about their opinions and feedback on this matter...

What is your take on the "Newbies", new comers, new DJ's, DJ's on the come up, etc wanting to learn how to dj now a days?
Specifically speaking with SERATO? I mean, yeah it's great for them to learn the fundementals on strictly vinyl, but can they help but just move with the time? I mean, I honestly do not see DJing moving backwards anytime soon and going back to strictly vinyl or CDs, and eliminating such software.

I see many professional DJ's using serato, and even the DMC tournaments have come to embrace traktor/serato...

So whats your guy's take on it?

I just want to know, because I honestly dont see it as a bad thing. New DJ's should grab onto the new technology and do what they can do with it.

[g-sep]

Personally I see no problem with it. I started with Traktor Scratch Duo. Yeah at first I was looking at the bpm's and the phase meter, but I forced myself to not look at them anymore. Now I'm actually on the hunt to get some more vinyl so I can do full 2 hour sets at home with the laptop closed.

To each their own. If your just doing it at home, then it's whatever, but if you do plan to play out, then it would be a good idea to learn at least how to beatmatch by ear, because the stupidest things can happen in the booth.

[djnickhustle]

no doubt...Lets keep this coming.

I mean I've witnessed alot of DJ's, mostly the veterans who started djing before serato even came out feel offended by the newbies coming into the game straight on serato..But if serato was out "back in the day" I would have jumped right on it as well.. Like I said, we cant help but move forward with time and grasp whatever new technology comes out way...

But yea...Everyone should atleast know how to beatmatch by ear just in case shit hits the fan...

[akm]

It's easy for the old-timers to feel offended. They had to put so much time and effort into learning what they do. Times are changing though, so people have to adapt to it or get left behind.

Good point above though about needing to be able to beatmatch by ear in case the shit hits the fan. And it will at some point!

[mostapha]

I have no problem with it.

Having Serato makes learning to DJ harder. Traktor is even worse.

How many of you guys learned on vinyl? I did. I got so damn sick of those first 5 records, it's insane. If I'd had my entire music library at that point, it would have taken me forever to realize (a) that the majority of my music was not DJ friendly and (b) that having access to that much right off the bat means that you won't learn what you're doing.

I'm really active on forums and have talked to a lot of DJs. I've listened to a lot of recorded sets and watched a lot of "me mixing" videos. I've also been out to a decent number of clubs. And out of all that, I can only think of about 3 or 4 guys who started with a laptop that I really respect, though there are probably a lot more that I can't think of.

Most of the others make the same kinds of mistakes that I learned not to make using those first 5 records, but because they have so much music and so much more to do than get things in time and drop them at the right point…they blame the wrong things and just haven't learned it.

Bring on the technology.

Do I really recommend learning on vinyl now? No. It's insanely expensive and sometimes hard to get your hands on. And if you can take–for example–Traktor Pro and hide all the stuff that you shouldn't be using yet…you could learn just fine. And I really don't have a problem with sync or having easy access to effects…I have a problem with them blinding you to learning how to listen to music properly, or…I would if I thought for a second that you'd ever manage to succeed that way.

[Chay]

When I got into DJing, I started off with Traktor and a set of control vinyl. I started to learn beatmatching right away with the "one ear on, one ear off" method, but a week later I bought some trance vinyl and practiced on that, not to mention to learn the fundamentals with pure vinyl as well :)

So how do I see it? Nothing wrong :)

[Hausgeist]

Great post but,

It's (vinyl) insanely expensive and sometimes hard to get your hands on.
Nah. I mean, sure, you'll pay top dollar for new releases, but you can buy older stuff very inexpensively. I have been ordering back catalog stuff, and records from individuals, (in VG+ or better condition) for $2.00 or less per record in most cases. So many people are dumping off their collections that it is really a buyer's market.

[Chay]

Great post but,

Nah. I mean, sure, you'll pay top dollar for new releases, but you can buy older stuff very inexpensively. I have been ordering back catalog stuff, and records from individuals, (in VG+ or better condition) for $2.00 or less per record in most cases. So many people are dumping off their collections that it is really a buyer's market.

Very true, I'm pretty sure your local record store has the massive vinyl crates that each vinyl is $1 as well :)

[Boomcie]

Great post but,

Nah. I mean, sure, you'll pay top dollar for new releases, but you can buy older stuff very inexpensively. I have been ordering back catalog stuff, and records from individuals, (in VG+ or better condition) for $2.00 or less per record in most cases. So many people are dumping off their collections that it is really a buyer's market.
Yeah, I'm not really a fan of a lot of newer music so I mostly buy older tunes. I rarely pay over $5 for record, usually in the $2-$3 range. I do plan on adding some more Kerri Chandler EPs to my collection soon, and I can get them brand new for around $8-$9.

[Hausgeist]

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of a lot of newer music so I mostly buy older tunes. I rarely pay over $5 for record, usually in the $2-$3 range. I do plan on adding some more Kerri Chandler EPs to my collection soon, and I can get them brand new for around $8-$9.

I picked up Kerri Chandler - The Mood EP for $4.00.

[Atomisk]

I feel like Serato is a great tool, but they should learn to mix without waveriding! It's practically the sync button. Ideally I feel like everyone should learn on CDs/USBs as Vinyl is too hasslesome.

[BuddyUK]

Great post but,

Nah. I mean, sure, you'll pay top dollar for new releases, but you can buy older stuff very inexpensively. I have been ordering back catalog stuff, and records from individuals, (in VG+ or better condition) for $2.00 or less per record in most cases. So many people are dumping off their collections that it is really a buyer's market.

Too true, I'm saving up for a holiday at the moment and a new Vespa so my spare money SHOULD all be going on that, even though I bought a couple of new (old) records only yesterday. I'm paying more for the postage than the records a lot of the time. Also been cherry picking peoples collections for sale who live local to me (probably not so easy for some of you guys as I can get to anywhere in London and back in no time for just over £10 just for a start) but I can make some insanely cheap deals by just sending some seller a big list of records, thrashing out a deal and going off to meet him with the cash in my pocket.

Also unless you're ONLY focused on some super obscure micro-genre (you're probably not even if you think you are) and you only want the HOT new tracks that everyone else is playing your kind of missing the point IMHO.

AS far as the DVS thing goes if i had the ability to skip the difficult bits when mixing, I'm sure I would, all the time, and what have I learnt then exactly?

[Nicadraus]

Learning to mix on SSL or TSP is ok as long as he learns properly and not mixing by matching the waveforms (in Serato) or using auto sync (in Traktor). Beatching by ear is the proper way. :)

[mostapha]

Great post but,

Nah. I mean, sure, you'll pay top dollar for new releases, but you can buy older stuff very inexpensively. I have been ordering back catalog stuff, and records from individuals, (in VG+ or better condition) for $2.00 or less per record in most cases. So many people are dumping off their collections that it is really a buyer's market.

That's definitely true. Mr.C is selling a lot of his record collection (15k down to 1500) and I plan on picking up a chunk of it…it's just weird buying records without a good way to preview what the song actually is. I don't really care, though, I know he has decent taste and would love to have a few records with his pencil notes on the label.


I feel like Serato is a great tool, but they should learn to mix without waveriding! It's practically the sync button.

Yeah…that's where I just don't care. And SSL does have a view that doesn't give you any useful aides. It's not hard to use it as long as you have the balls to do it and not panic.

[de.j.l]

Ideally I feel like everyone should learn on CDs/USBs as Vinyl is too hasslesome.

couldn't agree less.
for the learning curve, I purchased TT's + Records and it really didn't cost me that much.. $250?

Learn't how to do it, and moved on and it put me ahead of a lot of new comers I see now a days who are starting digital.

[Bassline Brine]

I've recently started mixing and have picked up Serato within the last 6 months or so. While I've had some personal great success with matching and getting some mixes really tight to where I feel like sharing, I've also come to realize that I "wave-ride" if that's the term for it. So recently I've picked up some DnB vinyl (mostly older stuff circa 1998-2003) and I'm working on that.

I think Serato is a great tool. It gets your foot in the door, and allows you to begin mixing the stuff that you absolutely love. It's also a LOT cheaper than buying vinyl in the long run, and that can't be overlooked.

But people just have to remember to pay their dues, and learn the old fashioned way. Otherwise, it's all for naught IMO.

I love mixing. I can get a tight mix 95% of the time using Serato. But in no way, shape, or form do I feel ready for public performance because I can't straight beatmatch by ear yet. And I think that's honestly an important skill to have, even if you don't use it all the time.

[DeadPhr0g]

Real quick, I just wanted to post up and ask people about their opinions and feedback on this matter...

What is your take on the "Newbies", new comers, new DJ's, DJ's on the come up, etc wanting to learn how to dj now a days?
Specifically speaking with SERATO? I mean, yeah it's great for them to learn the fundementals on strictly vinyl, but can they help but just move with the time? I mean, I honestly do not see DJing moving backwards anytime soon and going back to strictly vinyl or CDs, and eliminating such software.

I see many professional DJ's using serato, and even the DMC tournaments have come to embrace traktor/serato...

So whats your guy's take on it?

I just want to know, because I honestly dont see it as a bad thing. New DJ's should grab onto the new technology and do what they can do with it. It's 2012. DJing has evolved. DJs have evolved. All about personal preference. Doesn't matter what you start on as long as the stuff you play is appealing to people. DVS facilitates the learning curve. Why a digital DJ would ever spin without his DVS is beyond me, making the argument "you would be lost without Serato," invalid, yet true. DVS and waveforms will cripple you if you ever want to steer away from DVS. There is no right or wrong way to do it as long as you make a groove people can dance to.

Furthermore, the majority of DJs don't actually want to learn how to mix. They want the attention that comes with playing two tracks in time because at some point in time that was a feat, that was a challenge. Ironically, that challenge can now be achieved with a button or waveforms. It's just like anything in life, shortcuts will get you there quicker but its not always the best route.

[alazydj]

And the rest of us DJs want attention for keeping a groove going.

I'm trying to supplement my Serato rig with a bunch of old House records I picked up for dirt cheap. It's just damn fun to mix with vinyl. Plus, if the crowd is into the set and they notice you're packing that old wax stuff, they just appreciate the song that much more.

[Anomoly]

learn on whatever floats your boat... just actually put time in learning - technology isn't an excuse to half***

[finalcoyote]

I would hate to think that there are DJ's out there who have never used vinyl, or who can't manage without a laptop - the reality is that this is where DJ'ing is heading, and since we're in a technological age, that's where it'll continue going.

I pity them, to be honest. There's nothing quite like the feeling you get when you start out and first start beatmatching - that smile you can't help contain because two songs are playing in synchrony. It's weird, but wonderful, and hitting the sync button just doesn't match up.

[Jason Cerna]

after breaking up with my lady and moving back to blacksburg, all the new djs i've met in the past 6-7 months have never touched a vinyl record. i don't really care. imo, it is an ego thing with some of the older heads. times have changed plenty since the release of scratch live in 2004. paying dues doesn't really include hauling crates of records around to gigs anymore.

but, in the end a sucka dj is still a sucka.

[mostapha]

But people just have to remember to pay their dues, and learn the old fashioned way. Otherwise, it's all for naught IMO.

I think those are 2 different issues. I prefer mixing the old fashioned way, but that's because I'm lazy and kind of hate some kinds of technology (which is weird for a coder). With the exception of using Pro Tools or Logic instead of tape machines, I'd love an all old-school studio…and I think I'm in the serious minority on that one.

If you don't just prefer mixing the old fashioned way, I think it's entirely possible to learn everything you need to know to throw a great set using a controller or waveriding or whatever. See Jason's comment below.


Learning to mix on SSL or TSP is ok as long as he learns properly and not mixing by matching the waveforms (in Serato) or using auto sync (in Traktor). Beatching by ear is the proper way. :)

Again, I don't really agree. I prefer it. Learning that way helped me, and I think it helps anyone. But it's not like the boring, mechanical, tedious task of beatmatching somehow imbues your mix with awesome. It's just that learning to listen that way can force you to learn things that you probably won't if you can just hit sync from the beginning. Learning with sync doesn't actually mean that you can't learn those things.

Excuse the imagery, but where you aim is more important than how you wank.

The artistic choices in getting your set where you want to go are more important than the mechanics of how you get there, IMHO. That doesn't mean "anything goes," but it means if you throw an awesome set, you throw an awesome set.


I feel like Serato is a great tool, but they should learn to mix without waveriding! It's practically the sync button. Ideally I feel like everyone should learn on CDs/USBs as Vinyl is too hasslesome.

Couldn't disagree more.

1. Waveriding is a very valid tool. I've pulled off mixes that I couldn't do on vinyl (beat-less/ambient intros that drop in beat) because of it. It also lets you mix drunker. I have mixed feelings about learning that way, though, because I'd performed in front of people before I even thought about bringing a laptop into the booth.

2. CDJs are insanely more expensive for individuals. They make a lot of sense for clubs, and I don't really plan on spinning on anything else (certainly not bringing my tables). But when all is said and done, my CDJ-200s (which I was never happy with) ended up costing me $1300 in total cost of ownership for them and gear that I never would have bought if I'd stuck with SSL the first time around. POS budget decks that feel like toys are not worth the cost of an Apple.


but, in the end a sucka dj is still a sucka.

:stupid:

Also, sorry about shit with your lady. If we ever meet in person, add it to the list of drinks I owe you.

[Sigma]

Real quick, I just wanted to post up and ask people about their opinions and feedback on this matter...

What is your take on the "Newbies", new comers, new DJ's, DJ's on the come up, etc wanting to learn how to dj now a days?
Specifically speaking with SERATO? I mean, yeah it's great for them to learn the fundementals on strictly vinyl, but can they help but just move with the time? I mean, I honestly do not see DJing moving backwards anytime soon and going back to strictly vinyl or CDs, and eliminating such software.

I see many professional DJ's using serato, and even the DMC tournaments have come to embrace traktor/serato...

So whats your guy's take on it?

I just want to know, because I honestly dont see it as a bad thing. New DJ's should grab onto the new technology and do what they can do with it.
I haven't read any of the replies cos I'm too lazy (:p), but my take is this: -

Learn using whatever gear you like, but remember that taking too many shortcuts will limit you.

With Serato particularly, you don't want to get bogged down with staring at waveforms all the time simply because that's the only way you learned to mix. I would hate to not be able to mix without staring at the screen of a laptop. That doesn't mean "never look at waveforms" or "looking at waveforms is cheating", but if I cover up those waveforms and you can't mix 2 tracks together then I don't think you've learned to DJ properly yet.

It is largely about attitude, not equipment, although people with a particular attitude will sometimes choose certain pieces of equipment, for instance, someone who starts out wanting to cut as many corners as they can so that they can be what they think is a "DJ" in as short a time period as possible would choose the gear/software that does more for them so they have to learn less. But, no matter what gear you have, if you have what I think is the right attitude (i.e. put the time in and do it right - use shortcuts as an alternative, not as your only option cos you skipped the basics), then you can learn to DJ properly regardless of whether you're using vinyl, Serato, a controller or whatever.

[djnickhustle]

I would like to thank everyone so far with the positive feedbacks....

[DjFloMatic]

Like said now a days its tough to learn on Vinyl as getting records is a lot harder then it was pre Serato times. That said I don't think Vinyl is necessarily the only means of "true ways" to learn. Straight CDs can work just as effectively as long as there aren't bpm counters etc. on the CDJ.

I feel a DJ getting started for the first time ever should go without a computer software program, even if its just for the first few months of learning just to get somewhat of an idea on how to mix by ear even if they don't perfect I feel it will help a lot when moving to software.

I personally started on straight CDJ system for about 2 months then bought Technics but went another month of just running vinyl before buying serato and at the time I couldn't believe how much easier it was but yet learning a little without the software helped alot I feel.

[mostapha]

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg054r/pics/ssl_what_aides.png

So, where are all these visual aides you guys are talking about that always impede learning?

Seriously…I see where you guys are coming from. I learned on vinyl, and part of me thinks that's the best way. But no one is going to listen to you if you keep spouting arguments that are obviously crap.

[DeadPhr0g]

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg054r/pics/ssl_what_aides.png

So, where are all these visual aides you guys are talking about that always impede learning?


That is so pro, oh my God. Like seriously, how can one be as smart as joo?

[DjFloMatic]

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg054r/pics/ssl_what_aides.png

So, where are all these visual aides you guys are talking about that always impede learning?

Seriously…I see where you guys are coming from. I learned on vinyl, and part of me thinks that's the best way. But no one is going to listen to you if you keep spouting arguments that are obviously crap.

The main part that people say makes it easier is the wave forms of the tracks and the bpm counter, which are not shown in your picture since no tracks are up

[Andrew B]

So, where are all these visual aides you guys are talking about that always impede learning?

Seriously…I see where you guys are coming from. I learned on vinyl, and part of me thinks that's the best way. But no one is going to listen to you if you keep spouting arguments that are obviously crap.

Yep, all n00bs turn off all of the visual aids as soon as they buy it. :facepalm:

I guess I've just seen too many guys that completely rely on waveforms. The ones who say "hey, can you mix in my first song for me?"

[mostapha]

@DeadPhr0g, wow my ignore list is growing quickly.


The main part that people say makes it easier is the wave forms of the tracks and the bpm counter, which are not shown in your picture since no tracks are up

That view does show the BPM counter. It's more accurate than crappy CDJs but worse than modern Rekordbox Pioneer stuff. I'm going to call that a wash. And the waveforms available in that view are barely better than just looking at a record. They're maybe a little better than on CDJs, but I don't see it.

Either I haven't noticed the aides in that view or they're not there.


Yep, all n00bs turn off all of the visual aids as soon as they buy it. :facepalm:

I guess I've just seen too many guys that completely rely on waveforms. The ones who say "hey, can you mix in my first song for me?"

No, but they could. I don't really feel that using available tools is inherently cheating, but even if you do…it's not the software that forces them to use those tools.

[Atomisk]

No, but they could. I don't really feel that using available tools is inherently cheating, but even if you do…it's not the software that forces them to use those tools.

A cheat sheet could be an available tool at an exam, is that inherently cheating? The only people who disable waveforms will be either vinyl purists or people trying to learn to beatmatch by ear; not the common n00b waverider.