Which new speaker?

[electricsmooth]

Some of you may remember from way back that I posted about not being happy with my Yorkville EF500Ps. They were definitely loud enough but the sound was too harsh for my liking. Someone suggested I get a driverack and equalize them. I did that and got the speakers sounding a lot better. I was happy for the time being.

I recently returned from a trip to England where I was invited to a wedding reception. The sound coming from the DJ's speakers was very nice, much better than mine. I went up and talked to him during a break and made a mental note of what his setup was. I had it all saved to memory but then proceeded to get completely wasted, resulting in my mental hard drive crashing. I believe they were EVs but can't say for sure.

Anyways, since that trip, I have returned to the quest for better sound. I'm going to stay with powered cabs and have been thinking about the QSC KW152. I've heard great things about them but can't find a pair to demo. I might have to make a trip to Seattle to check them out.

Anyone use these speakers? How do they compare to the EF500Ps in terms of loudness and sound quality? WOuld they go well with my Yorkville LS800P subs?

[windspeed36]

Others to consider are the RCF712A and the JBL PRX612M. Just go down to your local dealers and take a listen to them - see what takes your fancy

[drzinc]

Are you running these with a sub? Was the other dj using a sub? If you do plan on running a sub have a listen to thesehttp://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=361&MId=3.

If you are thinking of getting subs later have a listen to these (http://www.peavey.com/products/proaudio/loudspeakers/impulse/index.cfm/item/117533/Impulse%26nbsp%3B12D.html) smooth unfatigued highs.

[Al Poulin]

Are you running these with a sub? Was the other dj using a sub? If you do plan on running a sub have a listen to thesehttp://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=361&MId=3.

If you are thinking of getting subs later have a listen to these (http://www.peavey.com/products/proaudio/loudspeakers/impulse/index.cfm/item/117533/Impulse%26nbsp%3B12D.html) smooth unfatigued highs.


The Impulse 12Ds have had a number of issues, from overheating to poor quality control, to bleeding mixer channels. They do sound good, but the company in China producing them has not been doing a very good job from all I have read. I would avoid them.

Al

[Al Poulin]

The Yorkville EF500Ps are LOUD powered speakers that do have a harsher LIVE sound and are not ideal for playback music IMO. EQ cuts at certain frequencies can smooth it out somewhat, but it is not a sweet or hi-fi sounding cab.

As suggested, have a listen to the higher end RCF offerings 712A or 722A depending if you want the 2'' exit. Much, much smoother and ear pleasing while putting out substantial SPL. Yamaha DSR, JBL PRX and QSC KW122s are also certainly worth a listen. Any of these will sound better with playback music than the 500Ps.

Al

[electricsmooth]

Al, you have hit the nail on the head with your assessment of the EF500Ps. In addition, you have also described exactly what I'm looking for, a "sweet or hi-fi sounding cab." That is exactly what the British bloke's (note the appropriate UK slang) system sounded like.

I do have 2 subs (LS800Ps) and I am very happy with them. I am hoping to stay with a speaker that is 15" just for versatility with venues unless of course, there are 12" cabs that are just as loud as the EF500Ps. I don't really care too much about the bass response, just loudness. Of course, keep in mind that the "sweet or hi-fi sound" is absolutely essential. So, to wrap it up, here are my main needs:

1. "sweet or hi-fi sound"
2. Loud enough for mid-large parties

Those RCFs sure are expensive. The JBLPRX612 seems to be the cheapest workable option.

I suppose I could continue to assault people's ears with my EF500Ps for a year or so until I save up for the RCFs if they really are that much better. It seems around here all you can go hear at the music stores are Yorkville products.

[ampnation]

I'm not sure what mid to large means to you -- 300? 500? 1000?
and beyond crowd size, you have to consider venue. Do you play outdoors? in large halls?

The reason I bring this up is, once you start getting to a point where typical mid level, respected DJ speakers like say the PRX612M have a hard time putting out the levels you want, I think it is time to step up to a substantially larger system. If you only play these larger events occasionally I would rent for those gigs until you're doing enough of them to justify spending the type of money you need to buy such a larger system. These larger systems vary from stuff like the EV Phoenix series to quasi line arrays like the QSC KLA or the JBL VRX systems, to full blown line arrays. I would expect to spend well over $10k for such a system and wouldn't be surprised to spend $20k and for full line arrays, more than that.

I saw a used Phoenix system on ebay a while back for I believe $15k for 6 PX2122 cabs and 4 of the subwoofers. I don't think that included amps for them but may have. That is one SERIOUSLY loud system. I can't say how it compares as far as that hi-fi requirement goes. I think a lot would have to do with the skill of the person setting them up.

As far as the RCF's go, I've never heard anyone have a bad thing to say about the ART722A.

[windspeed36]

As far as the RCF's go, I've never heard anyone have a bad thing to say about the ART722A.

The only negative I've ever heard is that the highs at low volumes overpower the lows and mids but when they get going they balance our and sound pretty sweet

If your looking at 500-800 people I'd be looking at the QSC KLA or JBL VRX as mentioned. Any bigger and I personally start rolling out the Meyer Mina and L'Acoustics KARA but for those systems your looking seriously large price tags: 60k ish for a small Mina setup or around $120k for the L'Acoustics

[Evil Steve]

Electric
I want to clarify your situation.
1. You were drunk
2. You haven't heard your own system in the room you heard someone else's system
3. You spent a majority of the evening on the "business side" of these loudspeakers.
Questions.
1. Was this room typical of the rooms you play with your system?
2. Was the crowd the same size as the crowd you normally play with your system?
3. Do you normally get out front of your system so you can hear what's actually going on while you perform?

Although I agree that there are more "home stereo" sounding professional loudspeakers out there than the ef500p, I always wonder whether that bears any relevance to a professional sound system provider. To me "home stereo" can be faked with some processing. Home stereo reliability is the problem...
The ef500p and ls800p combination is capable of providing good sound for large numbers of people. Perhaps in your smaller parties, you're hitting the walnut with the sledgehammer.
Regardless, if you want something a little more "home stereo", perhaps you might want to give Mackie HD1531 a listen. They are, by no means, in the same league as your ef500's but they will sound hi-fi by comparison.

[windspeed36]

Electric
I want to clarify your situation.
1. You were drunk
2. You haven't heard your own system in the room you heard someone else's system
3. You spent a majority of the evening on the "business side" of these loudspeakers.
Questions.
1. Was this room typical of the rooms you play with your system?
2. Was the crowd the same size as the crowd you normally play with your system?
3. Do you normally get out front of your system so you can hear what's actually going on while you perform?

Although I agree that there are more "home stereo" sounding professional loudspeakers out there than the ef500p, I always wonder whether that bears any relevance to a professional sound system provider. To me "home stereo" can be faked with some processing. Home stereo reliability is the problem...
The ef500p and ls800p combination is capable of providing good sound for large numbers of people. Perhaps in your smaller parties, you're hitting the walnut with the sledgehammer.
Regardless, if you want something a little more "home stereo", perhaps you might want to give Mackie HD1531 a listen. They are, by no means, in the same league as your ef500's but they will sound hi-fi by comparison.

I think it was Manu mentioning something about the HD1531's - the drivers apparently were screwed in with 4 screws instead of the standard 8.... Something to mull over

[Al Poulin]

Al, you have hit the nail on the head with your assessment of the EF500Ps. In addition, you have also described exactly what I'm looking for, a "sweet or hi-fi sounding cab." That is exactly what the British bloke's (note the appropriate UK slang) system sounded like.

I do have 2 subs (LS800Ps) and I am very happy with them. I am hoping to stay with a speaker that is 15" just for versatility with venues unless of course, there are 12" cabs that are just as loud as the EF500Ps. I don't really care too much about the bass response, just loudness. Of course, keep in mind that the "sweet or hi-fi sound" is absolutely essential. So, to wrap it up, here are my main needs:

1. "sweet or hi-fi sound"
2. Loud enough for mid-large parties

Those RCFs sure are expensive. The JBLPRX612 seems to be the cheapest workable option.

I suppose I could continue to assault people's ears with my EF500Ps for a year or so until I save up for the RCFs if they really are that much better. It seems around here all you can go hear at the music stores are Yorkville products.


Try to have a listen to the Yamaha DSR112s on top of some subs. These are some of the higher output powered cabs I've had a chance to listen to. The 1300 watts is not peak, but continuous (giving them substantial headroom) + the cabs sound good even at their highest output and incorporate some very complex processing. They don't sound quite as good as the RCF boxes, but not that far either. For the price difference, they are certainly worth a listen.

Al

[electricsmooth]

Sorry, for mid-large size venue I was referring to no more than 300-400 people max. Even in those situations, I would say that at any given point, there are no more than half of them dancing near the floor. Most of the time, I'm at events that max out at about 200 people but on the one occasion where I was DJing a large wedding (approx. 400 people), the EF500Ps performed quite well (in terms of loudness).

I originally had Yorkville NX550Ps which I remember were 12" with 1" horn and athough IMO, they sounded much better than the EF500Ps, they just weren't able to put out enough sound. That is why I upgraded to the EF500Ps. It is for this reason that I am a bit hesitant to return to a 12" speaker.

I do regularly check out what my system sounds like from the "business end". I have this luxury because my brother-in-law and I usually switch back and forth DJing. This gives me a chance to take a walk. The event and venue in England was comparable to my gigs if not a little larger.

The JBL sounds appealing and I'm still wondering if anyone knows anything about the QSC KW152? I would save everyone some trouble and go hear them for my self but it looks like the only thing local to audition are Yorkville speakers

[Al Poulin]

Sorry, for mid-large size venue I was referring to no more than 300-400 people max. Even in those situations, I would say that at any given point, there are no more than half of them dancing near the floor. Most of the time, I'm at events that max out at about 200 people but on the one occasion where I was DJing a large wedding (approx. 400 people), the EF500Ps performed quite well (in terms of loudness).

I originally had Yorkville NX550Ps which I remember were 12" with 1" horn and athough IMO, they sounded much better than the EF500Ps, they just weren't able to put out enough sound. That is why I upgraded to the EF500Ps. It is for this reason that I am a bit hesitant to return to a 12" speaker.

I do regularly check out what my system sounds like from the "business end". I have this luxury because my brother-in-law and I usually switch back and forth DJing. This gives me a chance to take a walk. The event and venue in England was comparable to my gigs if not a little larger.

The JBL sounds appealing and I'm still wondering if anyone knows anything about the QSC KW152? I would save everyone some trouble and go hear them for my self but it looks like the only thing local to audition are Yorkville speakers

The fact that the NX55Ps couldn't quite keep up has nothing to do with the fact that they are 12" cabinets. The EF500Ps are simply more powerful speakers with true 2" exit HF driver. The fact that their voicing is much more agressive in the mid frequencies also makes them appear much louder. I have the NX55Ps and can confirm that they limit more quickly than I would like.

If you like the sound of the NX55Ps, you would love the Art 310As. I own 2 pairs of them and they are simply outstanding when used with subs. Two pairs of them could certainly hang with your LS800Ps. With subs handling the deep stuff, the RCFs will actually get louder than the NX55Ps and sound slightly better too. They have the same hi-fi and slightly mid scooped sound as the NX55Ps. At their price of 400$ a piece, I highly recommend them. Probably the loudest little 10" cab in their price range. They are bookshelf sized and under 30lbs too! Let me know if you have any other questions at all.

Al

[electricsmooth]

So I went against everyone's advice and picked up a pair if kw153s used local. Got them for 1700. I figured they would be more versatile in the sense that I could take them on their own without my giant ls800ps for smaller venues. Not sure how much better (if at all) they would sound with my subs but some say you get a richer vocal sound when the 15" is not forced to be a subwoofer. Not sure if I made the right choice so please tell me I did. Haha. I did hear the Yamaha dsr112, the jbl prx15, and the kw122 side by side at the music store and thought the Yamaha and the qsc sounded the nicest.

[ampnation]

Those KW153's are very nice from what I hear. If I were getting big, hi fi sounding full range cabs to be used without a sub, that would be on my short list to look at for sure. Use your subs when you need extra bass. Without looking at specs, I would think the 153's actually go just about as low as your subs, so we're talking about needing the extra oompf, not lower notes.

[note correction below regarding this paragraph]
I think the LS subs all have crossovers and so do the KW153 so you could experiment. However, if I'm not mistaken, the sub switch on the KW will only engage the crossover internally and won't affect the thru outs in which case you'd need to play with the setting on the LS to get it right. If I'm right and the LS has a crossover, from what I remember seeing on the 720, you just set it -- maybe set the frequency and engage a switch -- and it outputs the pass through signal properly filtered for tops with that frequency. This seems the better option.

As a practical matter, even if the sound quality isn't as good with the LS subs added, many times just being loud sounds good if you know what I mean, and everything above your crossover point will sound better due to the KW's not having to work as hard to create bass.

Usually when people ignore advice here he do little hand banging on wall "smilies" but in this case... :tup:

[EDIT] The correction is, the frequency setting on the LS720P only affects the sub, not the XLR pass through. Thanks to Al Poulin for pointing that out.

[electricsmooth]

Thanks! Looks like some tinkering to do. Should I still use my driverack?

[ampnation]

Thanks! Looks like some tinkering to do. Should I still use my driverack?

Didn't know you had one... strike all that and just use the driverack. You still have tinkering to do though figuring out where you want those crossovers, what slope, etc.

[Al Poulin]

The KW153s are great sounding 3 way powered speakers. Their weight is a little too much for me though. Are they stand mountable at all? (if they are it is defenitely a 2 man lift). I probably would have chosen the KW122s myself just because they are easier to handle and stand mount - and their low frequency response is adequate for many of the smaller (wedding type) bookings I do.

Al

[Al Poulin]

Hey electricsmooth, I just noticed you had sent me a PM about the QSCs. Really sorry I missed that. I used to get notifications via Hotmail when I received a PM in DJF but haven't received any since being on DJF2.0.?? Anyway, sorry once again. I usually answer any questions promptly and love to help out, but simply didn't see I had a notification...

Al

[electricsmooth]

No problem Al. I figured you just didn't see it. Besides, now I can blame you for my purchase. Haha. They are pole mountable and like the EF500Ps, are a struggle to get on. Oh well, I guess some people never learn. Maybe when I screw my back up, I'll finally grab the 10" RCFs. Out of all of this I have learnt that the Yamaha DSR112 (I think that's the correct model) is one hell of a nice sounding speaker for the price. It is strange why it doesn't seem to be on many people's top 3 list. Also, I was not very impressed with the JBL PRX15M. I just got the QSC KW153s because I found a good deal used.

Well on to the next thread. I have some questions regarding subwoofer placement. Thanks everyone for all your help with this one!

[Al Poulin]

No problem Al. I figured you just didn't see it. Besides, now I can blame you for my purchase. Haha. They are pole mountable and like the EF500Ps, are a struggle to get on. Oh well, I guess some people never learn. Maybe when I screw my back up, I'll finally grab the 10" RCFs. Out of all of this I have learnt that the Yamaha DSR112 (I think that's the correct model) is one hell of a nice sounding speaker for the price. It is strange why it doesn't seem to be on many people's top 3 list. Also, I was not very impressed with the JBL PRX15M. I just got the QSC KW153s because I found a good deal used.

Well on to the next thread. I have some questions regarding subwoofer placement. Thanks everyone for all your help with this one!

Now that I think of it, I also used to have a pop up in DJF that poped up as soon as I signed in IF I had a PM. That doesn't happen either. Maybe its something I need to fix in my account settings?

Anyway, if ever you can't manage the 153s anymore, QSC speakers keep their value very well, so you shold have no trouble selling them. Glad you could try out the DSRs. They really are very capable (and very high output) powered tops. :)

Al