Do these bass expanders work?

[DJHoss]

Howdy,

On one of the threads on here I found this product that is supposed to increase bass productivity and all that good stuff by cutting out what the subs cannot handle.

http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=173

That was the product that was recommended. I know the Peavey Kosmos series blows speakers, but I do not think this is the same as the Kosmos.

So, will this sonic maximiser (I guess it is) work as intended? any comments, remarks?

Thanks guys :tup:

[windspeed36]

Identical thread 7 spots below this one, here it is - http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?3735-Bass-Enhancement - basically they're useless. They do damage to your speakers and distort the audio quality.

A crossover also does the same job - cutting out what the subwoofer can't handle from the bottom up. A graphics eq can cut the signals from say 25 or 30Hz and below

[audiopyle]

I've never used the waves product, but it is pretty well regarded by many pros. Unlike the bass boosting maximizers, it relies on a psychoacoustic brain response that causes a listener to perceive fundamental bass notes that aren't actually there when they hear higher frequency harmonics. Besides avoiding damage to drivers, it is useful in circumstances where one must avoid actual deep bass production due to environmental constraints (neighbors, vibration issues, etc).

[DJHoss]

Thanks guys, +1 Rep.

[Windows 95]

it relies on a psychoacoustic brain response that causes a listener to perceive fundamental bass notes that aren't actually there when they hear higher frequency harmonics.http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/CheapCharley/smiley/smiley_lol.gif

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/CheapCharley/smiley/smiley_lol.gif

The laugh's on you. They work. They don't work as well as an actual low frequency signal into a subwoofer, but in instances where subs aren't an option they're the next best thing.
Don't criticize what you don't understand.

[unsafe8989]

The laugh's on you. They work. They don't work as well as an actual low frequency signal into a subwoofer, but in instances where subs aren't an option they're the next best thing.
Don't criticize what you don't understand.

+1 For being an O.G lowk;)

[Windows 95]

They work.Whether or not it works is completely irrelevant to the LOL.
The LOL is directed at the audiophile style pseudo-techno-gibberish that attempts to describe the product.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Whether or not it works is completely irrelevant to the LOL.
The LOL is directed at the audiophile style pseudo-techno-gibberish that attempts to describe the product.
That particular bit of gibberish is technically accurate and there's nothing pseudo about it.

[unsafe8989]

That particular bit of gibberish is technically accurate and there's nothing pseudo about it.
You tell him bill!!!!

[Windows 95]

That particular bit of gibberish is technically accurate and there's nothing pseudo about it.It says nothing about what the product is or what it actually does. Sound to the human ear is a psychoacoustic brain response.

http://www.music.miami.edu/programs/Mue/mue2003/research/mescobar/thesis/web/Psychoacoustics.htm

Perceiving bass from higher frequencies is exactly what a bass maximizer (Or even the "loud" or "bass boost" button on a car stereo or a boom box.) does & what smiley EQing does.


They don't work as well as an actual low frequency signal into a subwooferIn other words, the product does not actually work.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It says nothing about what the product is or what it actually does. Sound to the human ear is a psychoacoustic brain response.

http://www.music.miami.edu/programs/Mue/mue2003/research/mescobar/thesis/web/Psychoacoustics.htm

Perceiving bass from higher frequencies is exactly what a bass maximizer (Or even the "loud" or "bass boost" button on a car stereo or a boom box.) does & what smiley EQing does.

In other words, the product does not actually work.
None of what you're saying has any basis in fact. And don't quote educational links to me. I already have my Masters; when I read a thesis it's to grade it, and that 'thesis' would get a failing grade from me because it's just a collection of cut-and-paste snippets. It would be an acceptable term paper in a first or second year undergraduate course.

[audiopyle]

Whether or not it works is completely irrelevant to the LOL.
The LOL is directed at the audiophile style pseudo-techno-gibberish that attempts to describe the product.

I thought my description was simple and concise, but if you still don't comprehend, here's a more in-depth article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental

[DJHoss]

I already have my Masters.

What is your Masters degree in? Is there a degree in say music that's close enough to DJ'ing? Just wondering, college is just up the road from me, and I have given little thought to anything besides mobile DJ'ing for a career, probably a stupid decision.

[Windows 95]

And don't quote educational links to me. I already have my Masters;Master degrees are a dime a dozen. Pardon me if I find the University of Miami a bit more reputable than hear say from some Joe Blow with a Masters. Besides which, I would think that such a great mind with a sacred Masters Degree, wouldn't need to be clicking on a link just to find out what the definition of "Psychoacoustics" is.

Great minds like Carl Sagen & Albert Eistein never had to resort to trying to talk over people's heads with the technical terminology of the specialized field they are familiar with. Throwing out techno-babble just to make something sound authentic is the tactic of a weak mind.

[DJNR]

bit more reputable than hear say from some Joe Blow with a Masters.

I believe the "Joe Blow with a Masters (http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/)"

[Windows 95]

I believe the "Joe Blow with a Masters (http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/)"I have no doubt that his speaker designs are exceptional.

[DJNR]

I have no doubt that his speaker designs are exceptional.

I have no doubt that his knowledge on the subject of audio is accurate because of his exceptional speaker designs.

[Windows 95]

I have no doubt that his knowledge on the subject of audio is accurate because of his exceptional speaker designs.I never implied his knowledge of audio was inaccurate. What's your point?

[DJNR]

I never implied his knowledge of audio was inaccurate.

"University of Miami a bit more reputable than hear say from some Joe Blow with a Masters."
You implied that the information provided by the University of Miami was more accurate than the information provided by Bill.


What's your point?
My point is that based on his qualifications and knowledge as sound engineer, he probably knows whether or not the bass expander in the original post work or not.

[Windows 95]

You implied that the information provided by the University of Miami was more accurate than the information provided by Bill. I never disputed the accuracy of anything here. BF disputed the accuracy of the University of Miami. I merely pointed out that a University is more reputable than an individual's post on a forum.


My point is that based on his qualifications and knowledge as sound engineer, he probably knows whether or not the bass expander in the original post work or not.By his own admission in this thread, the device does not live up to it's claims.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I never disputed the accuracy of anything here. BF disputed the accuracy of the University of Miami. I merely pointed out that a University is more reputable than an individual's post on a forum.

By his own admission in this thread, the device does not live up to it's claims.The link you posted has nothing to do with the University of Miami per se, it's merely a paper that was cobbled up by one of their students. As an individual I'm qualified to head the Acoustical Engineering Department at the University of Miami if I had the inclination, and if they had an Acoustical Engineering Department, but they don't. And I did not admit the device doesn't live up to its claims. It does.

You continue to criticize what you do not understand. When you get your graduate degree in Acoustical Engineering or a related field, own your own acoustical engineering firm, have been published a few hundred times and there's a sticky at the top of the first page of this forum with your name on it then something you have to say regarding highly involved technical issues may have some merit. But not today, nor anytime in the foreseeable future.

[Al Poulin]

Looks very interesting and could be helpful to many people. Unfortunately, the MaxxBass 107 is disontinued with no replacement. Anyone know of any other products that work on a similar principle - that is increasing perceived low frequency response without increasing woofer excursion and putting speaketrs at risk?

Al

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It appears that they've dropped out of the pro-sound market and now are concentrating on auto-sound and studio products. They market a plug-in, so if you use a computer with your tracks that may be an option.

http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=327