Explain BPM...

[Dix]

Ok, first I am really old school. I have never in my 20 + years of DJing used or played by BPM. I play specifically by: "this song mixes well behind this song" by ear. By what I learned thru the years & how I learned to do it... I guess the manual way. Kinda like playing guitar with music from a book &... playing by ear.

Today, while preparing my music for a wedding & reception for next weekend, I just happened to notice the BPM between two totally different songs. Why, I dont know, it just caught my eye. I never pay attention to BPM's from my software.

Any way, I just always assumed that BPM was "Beats Per Minute" which tell you, generally speaking, the tempo of the song. Well, apparently, that has nothing to do with it cause the two songs I noticed was the following:

Aerosmith - Walk This Way *107 BPM
Jeff Healey Band - Angel Eyes * 127 BPM

I was totally suprised as Walk this way is a very up tempo, fast song & Angel Eyes is a very slow, slloooooow song. Its almost like "Colour My World" by Chicago. Now I am totally lost on the point of BPM. Can some of you guys explain BPM? (I checked colour My World & my software shows a BPM for it in the high 150's)

Thanks
TC

[Defiance]

Color My World, if it is as slow as you say is probably 1/2 of what your software picked up.

[Andrew B]

Yeah, sometimes software will double or halve the BPM.

[Sigma]

If you set a metronome ticking away to a song, the number of ticks in 60 seconds is the BPM.

As mentioned above, software that has auto-BPM often doubles/halves the BPM cos it can't analyse the characteristics of the music well enough. With Serato I find that if the BPM is wrong it's usually slow songs that have had their BPMs doubled, which is what happened in the case of Angel Eyes for you, as it's more like 63 BPM and is clearly a lot slower than Walk This Way.

If you're using Serato you can fix this by highlighting all of the songs that have the BPMs doubled, then press Alt + the down arrow on your keyboard, which will halve all of them at the same time. If you have songs where the BPM is halved, you can use Alt + the up arrow.

[KLH]

Ok, first I am really old school. I have never in my 20 + years of DJing used or played by BPM. I play specifically by: "this song mixes well behind this song" by ear.
Hey DixieLand, do you have a 10m mix that shows your mixing style? I'm interested in how you mix.

FWIW, I'm NOT interested in poking fun. I seriously just want to hear where you're coming from as I understand that you play country. I've often wondered how country should be mixed as I've never heard a true mix - only sequencing.

-KLH

[Dix]

Hey DixieLand, do you have a 10m mix that shows your mixing style? I'm interested in how you mix.

FWIW, I'm NOT interested in poking fun. I seriously just want to hear where you're coming from as I understand that you play country. I've often wondered how country should be mixed as I've never heard a true mix - only sequencing.

-KLH

I dont "mix" as in what you guys call "mixing". The term mixing that I refer to is just habit. My mixing is done just like it is in radio. As one song fades, I just start another song behind it that "goes well" with the previous song as not to loose a dance floor. Its just tempo, the beat or style.
Understand that I started in country radio in 1982 & that's how I learned to mix. You never, ever want dead air in radio & the frame of mind I, as a radio DJ, put you in (music is a mental thing) I need to keep you there until I get ready to go from a cheating song (or set) to a "I love you" set.
I went from radio to the club in 1987 & played there until 1993. I had to learn to play more in sets there than the easier random play in radio. I tried to play a set of fast songs, then a set of slow so people wasn't rotating the dance floor so much. Some want slow & some want fast.
When I first started at this club, the DJ already there, was leaving a space between his songs, letting one go completely out before starting his next song. I taught this guy to never let the music stop. Showing him that by keeping a mental state of mind in tact was better than allowing his guests to start to leave the floor &/or stand there in limbo wondering what the next song was going to be & if they wanted to stay on the floor or go sit down. Before one song ends, find a place in the fade out where he could start his next song & "mix" it with beat & tempo etc & not let the music or the guests state of mind diminish. However, depending on if you are changing sets from fast to slow or vise-versa... of if one or both songs fades in or out... or start or stop cold, depends on when, where & how you mix those two songs.

In short, I play the whole song, where as I understand some of you guys don't. You may only play 30 sec to a minute of a song then mix another song into it. And if I understand, you usually don't start at the beginning of a song when you mix it into the previous song. You guys take segments of songs & mix them together. I just play them all the way thru & start another. But just like your "mixes" I use the same talent, but just use the start & end of a song.

As for me playing mostly country, that's not really the case. I play more classic rock (Aerosmith, Zeppelin, Clapton, Stones, CCR, ZZ Top) to Pop (Micheal Jackson, Micheal Bolton, Celine Dion) To Hip Hop (Right Said Fred, B-52's, Black eyed Peas, Vanilla Ice) more than anything now. I do some country & some oldies rock & roll. I try to stay away from anything heavier than what I mentioned ( Rock, Alt Rock, rap etc) isn't my thing.
Hope this helps... :)
TC

[KLH]

I dont "mix" as in what you guys call "mixing". The term mixing that I refer to is just habit. My mixing is done just like it is in radio. As one song fades, I just start another song behind it that "goes well" with the previous song as not to loose a dance floor. Its just tempo, the beat or style.
Thanks for the explanation. We each have our own style and I like hearing about others. Again, I've seen country as a challenge, so I appreciate your insight.

Now Andrew B. and Sigma already answered your immediate question, but I'll take a stab at what wasn't said.

Dance DJs pride themselves on making the transitions seamless so that the energy on the dancefloor stays the same or increases between songs. BPM is really only important if you want to transition by blending two songs into each other. The more elements that are similar or harmonic, the more seamless the blend when the two tracks play together and/or transition between one another.

Conversely, radio DJs don't worry about building energy via track transitions. They sequence songs and rely on the songs themselves to create energy. As such, key and BPM aren't as important to radio DJs as they are to "mixing" DJs.

IMHO, there is no answer to which is better from a crowd point of view. Crowds - moreso mobile crowds than club crowds - care more about song-selection than how the songs transition between tracks. YMMV.

-KLH

[Dix]

KLH, Thanks for your help. Possibly others will give their views on this subject as well. I tried to rep you again, but as usual, I gotta spread a little love around before I get ya again :)
Thanks to Defiance , Sigma & Andrew B also.. I think I got yall rep..

TC

[moyo wilde]

i'd agree with klh sometimes the energy of a song isn't set by the speed of the beats/tempo. also somethings that are techinically say 70, the drums are going at 70, other things are happening at double time (140) vocals various instruments additional drums etc. things might be in double time at various points in the song, ex the chorus. also vice versa drums at 140 and other key elements at 70.

i warp all of my music (i dj with), and sometimes this is the case.

[jazzyj]

Being a mobile DJ that mostly does weddings, and lots of country & rock too, I tend to do the same thing as Dixie. Most folks here in Kentucky want to hear the majority of the song - but like Dixie said no dead air. Sometimes I will fade out a song prematurely if it is dragging on too long or it clears out the dance floor and it bombs, but again no dead air, crossfade in another song quickly :)

I pay attention to the BPM's but like you all have already said, Traktor Pro does typically double the the slower songs. I've been learning to beatcount in my head with the song - because there are some instances where clients are requested EDM and I'd like to get to that seamless approach when needed.

Dixie, I often wonder sometimes about what you're saying about going from a "cheating" mode to a "love" mode. When I started, I really tried to focus in on that, but so many of the ****** at these country weddings LOVE the chick empowerment songs (shania, dixie chicks, gretchen, etc.) that even though it's a wedding, playing these songs about cheating and imma kick his ass, seems to be ok lol I do still try to start out playing songs that are about partying, instead of relationship songs. Works ok I reckon :)

[Alex Murphy]

Try Marley's "no woman no cry", see the reaction;)

[jazzyj]

Yah - was received well this weekend at a birthday party ... NO WOMAN, no cry. say say say... but then the birthday lady's boyfriend was from Africa and a reggae fanatic :) we also passed the dutchie, sang about buffalo soldiers, got up and stood up, and shot the sheriff.

[Nicadraus]

Being a DJ for 20+ years as you claim, you should know the answer to your question.

Back in the days when I started DJing in 1990, we counted every songs' BPM manually using a timer and labeled it on the record sleeves. In my opinion, it is still the best and more accurate way of knowing a track's BPM. It will take a lot of time though, but still very effective. Another suggestion and quick free software is the Mix Meister BPM analyzer.

You can download it here:

http://www.mixmeister.com/bpmanalyzer/bpmanalyzer.asp

Hope this helps. :)

[moyo wilde]

i am trying to get into making the songs sing to each other so to speak. telling a story with a set. i remember reading about it in how to dj properly. they said that larry levan and david mancuso were excellent at doing that. most people nowadays though don't pay too much attention to the lyrics.

[Finnish_Fox]

i am trying to get into making the songs sing to each other so to speak. telling a story with a set. i remember reading about it in how to dj properly. they said that larry levan and david mancuso were excellent at doing that. most people nowadays though don't pay too much attention to the lyrics.

Yah, but Mancuso doesn't mix. He just plays each track from beginning to end.

[Sween]

BPM = Beats per minute... Usually you would count 4 beats per measure (quarter notes)... and this is how Tempo is written on sheet music usually.

Your computer software is not smart enough to know the difference between a quarter note vs a half note vs an eighth note.. It only detects a regular tempo and then splurts out a number between 80 and 200 (usually adjustable per your software settings).

It is up to you the DJ to determine if that number is the True tempo, or a half or double-time tempo.

Technically, DJ's don't mix in the 60 BPM range because it's just not danceable... (unless you're a very creative dancer), nor would you ever mix over 200... and that is why your software is ignoring that range. But 60 BPM could mix with 120... also 240... and maybe even 180 or 90 but only if the rhythm/time signature is correct.

[Finnish_Fox]

I was born with BPM analyzers... they're called ears.

[Dix]

Dixie, I often wonder sometimes about what you're saying about going from a "cheating" mode to a "love" mode. When I started, I really tried to focus in on that, but so many of the ****** at these country weddings LOVE the chick empowerment songs (shania, dixie chicks, gretchen, etc.) that even though it's a wedding, playing these songs about cheating and imma kick his ass, seems to be ok lol I do still try to start out playing songs that are about partying, instead of relationship songs. Works ok I reckon :)

Jazzy, when I was using this term, I was speaking of the time I was in radio. Unless its a request, I try to never play "cheating", "Kick his a**" or negative songs at a wedding. I try to stick more to positive songs such as "love" or "close personal relationships" etc songs.
Thanks for your post & advice :)
TC

[jazzyj]

Jazzy, when I was using this term, I was speaking of the time I was in radio. Unless its a request, I try to never play "cheating", "Kick his a**" or negative songs at a wedding. I try to stick more to positive songs such as "love" or "close personal relationships" etc songs.
Thanks for your post & advice :)
TC

I figured :) but these girls these days are wild - sometimes Earl just has to die :shrug: lol even at a wedding.

[Dix]

Being a DJ for 20+ years as you claim, you should know the answer to your question.

Back in the days when I started DJing in 1990, we counted every songs' BPM manually

Nic... to be totally honest with you, I never heard of, or knew about BPM's until I came on this forum around 2004.. I got out for a while then came back to the forum in 2010. I guess the type music I have been into & the places I have played/worked in music, just didn't require it or we're all just a little slow down here :) After 4 years in radio & 6 years in the club, I never heard anyone talk about using it. Then I got into mobile in 2002 & seen something about it on my DJ software but I was fine without it. I just done it like I always did. Then I found this forum in 2004 & its like... huh? what?
In the 80s, our music director always labeled the new 45's with the intro time, whether it started & ended cold or faded & a letter A - F depending on where it was in the billboard charts. :)

[Finnish_Fox]

Being a DJ for 20+ years as you claim, you should know the answer to your question. Back in the days when I started DJing in 1990, we counted every songs' BPM manually using a timer and labeled it on the record sleeves.

Some did, some didn't. Probably depends on what you spun... most house DJs I know personally never really did that but why would you when all of your tracks are between 120ish-130ish bpm.

[DJ Boom Bap]

I use both techniques depending on the crowd/event. I'm a resident at a smallish bar in a tourist town. During the summer, I get lots of women wanting to dance, so I beat match. During the winter there is mostly male snow mobilers that just want to listen to good tunes and drink.

Weddings are the same. I start out "radio" mixing, but when the time comes (after all the special dances etc) I switch to keep 'em dancing beat matching mode. There is an art to both, and both require a degree of skill.

School Dances = Beat Matching


@ Sween, beat match mixing is possible with country, you just have to know your songs, and need to pay good attention to the mood and keys of the songs. I very rarely ever beat match country, there is really no need as most people that really dig country aren't used to it being beat matched anyway.

[Nicadraus]

@Dixie: Well, it's never too late to learn. Everyday is a learning process, and that process never stops (applies to all fields not only DJing). :)




Some did, some didn't. Probably depends on what you spun... most house DJs I know personally never really did that but why would you when all of your tracks are between 120ish-130ish bpm.

In the 90s, I used to play everything from hip-hop, R&B, house, techno, 70s disco, etc, I and many other DJs had to be versatile when it came to music because we played at different venues at different styles with different crowds. So we had to segregate our records in the crates and cases not only by genre but by BPM as well. In 2000, that's when I decided I'd stick with EDM (house to be specific) only because it's what I really wanted.

Also, mixing a 120BPM to a 130BPM won't sound good to me especially when there are vocals. I'm also not a key lock/master tempo user so I don't want hear chipmunks on the tracks I play. I'd do a transition if I wanted to go from 120 - 130 by squeezing in tracks with at least 124 & 127BPM. 120 - 124 - 127 - 130, that should be fine. :)

[Finnish_Fox]

Also, mixing a 120BPM to a 130BPM won't sound good to me especially when there are vocals. I'm also not a key lock/master tempo user so I don't want hear chipmunks on the tracks I play. I'd do a transition if I wanted to go from 120 - 130 by squeezing in tracks with at least 124 & 127BPM. 120 - 124 - 127 - 130, that should be fine. :)

They just knew their tracks... in and out. Different strokes for different folks...

[moyo wilde]

@finnish fox

yeah i knew mancuso wasn't beat mixing and i also heard larry wasn't very skilled @ beatmixing. it makes it a challenge cause if you want to go from this is going to be the greatest night song to me and my friends getting drunk club on fire to who's that girl/guy over there to what a beautiful guy/girl to lets get together to let f@ck and it so beautiful to happy relationship/ or bad end to a relationship. then on to another theme or other smaller themes.

right now i am listening to a practice mix i did it starts out "i'm a loser" to "i'll follow you" to "i wanna kiss you" to "get funky with you" to "this love is yours" to "it's yours" then moves to a more party type vibe.

it can be difficult cause you gotta find songs that match in bpm, feel, etc. can take some digging/scouring and patience.

[Sween]

@ Sween, beat match mixing is possible with country, you just have to know your songs, and need to pay good attention to the mood and keys of the songs. I very rarely ever beat match country, there is really no need as most people that really dig country aren't used to it being beat matched anyway.

Agreed. I never said you couldn't beat match country. I think it's actually much easier to beat match country than say hip hop which often has an irregular beat. I was only talking about trying to beatmatch stuff at 60 BPM or less... what's the point in beatmatching a slow dance?

[Molbster]

Dixieland, it's just a different type/style of mixing. For us electronic dance music (EDM) DJs, we try to make our transitions between song so that it seems like the entire mix is one whole song. BPM is used in that sense to help us match the tempos of the songs we're transitioning to and from. All of us (theoretically) can and should still be able to match the tempo's by ear, and that was how old school DJs on vinyl had to do it. BPM counters just give us a "ballpark" figure so we can get an idea if a song needs to be sped up or slowed down when we're mixing it in. It's only a tool that came with technology. Nothing more.

Along with what the others have said about software halving or doubling actual BPM of a song, a lot of the modern programs also "read" the BPM of a song by looking at the waveform it generates. It guesses the main beat as a series of "spikes". Sometimes a song is tricky in that the highest "spike" is not the main beat of the song. This is another reason why we all should know how to beatmatch by ear.

It's all the same concepts, just different application.

[moyo wilde]

@ sween

a lot of the pop hip hop out now is way down there in bpm, 60's & 70's and people certainly dance to them. the drums aren't that irregular. the kicks are different with most songs, although almost all have a kick on the one. the regular part is the snare/hihat/clap or whatever it is pretty much always on the two and four count, you beatmatch with those. the kicks being in different places can make some songs almost impossible to make a smooth blend with so you have to do a quick bass switch or just cut over.

sometimes it is hard for me to switch from listening for the kick (edm/disco) to the snares (hip hop/r&b/rock) .