2 RCF ART 312A's , 2 LS720P's ... What's the upgrade?

[akillj]

So I have what's stated in the title, two RCF 312A's , and two LS720P's. My budget would be, well, as much as I could save up for pretty much . ( I like to plan ahead ). So ima say ~ $1,000.

How do I upgrade this setup? I was thinking buying two more 312A's to add a little more spl and more coverage, as my bass response is plenty as it is. What do you guys think?

[windspeed36]

When you listen to it where are the flaws in the system?

[akillj]

Probably my tops are lacking. During larger venues I have to push them to just-before-limiting to get the sound I need. Which is why I was thinking of picking up two more RCF 312's so I can turn these down a little and have more coverage.

So I'm curious if i'm on the right path buying two more of the exact same tops, or getting something else.

[DJHoss]

Get a crossover to take the bass strain off the tops, they will go louder.

[Evolved]

Get a crossover to take the bass strain off the tops, they will go louder.


This is so funny because this is the exact setup I was posting a question about earlier. I have 2 312A's and wanted to get 2 720P'p. But I was asking the question on these forums: Do I need a crossover to use these 720P Subs with those tops? - I plan on 250-300 people at the very most. When you say large gigs - how many is large? Just curious. If bass response is plenty why not just a second pair of the 310ns? I was told that the crossover would create more noise for the speaker if I used one for the 720P's - but I am trying to get as much information as I can on it. In general how well do you like that current setup?

[Al Poulin]

If he is not boosting the lows on his eq (or channel EQ), the tops are not being strained. The 312As have a (naturally) very weak response below 80hz.(check the RCF website if you want to confirm this on the frequency response graph) A crossover might help a little, but I doubt you would see a significant increase in SPL. I'm also surprised your subs are not close to limiting when your tops are close to limiting. Is it possible your gain is too high on your tops and you're trying to compensate for the lack of bass from the subs by boosting the lows somewhere in your signal path? I have found the LS720Ps needs to have their gain set higher than the RCFs which I find have way too much when set near full. If you're running the RCFs with their gain close to 3/4 or close to full, they are too high and that is perhaps why they are limiting prematurely. Start with your EQ completely flat, put up the volume and set the gains on your subs and tops so the sound sounds well balanced. Increase your volume levels slowly and check to see if the tops still limit before the subs.

Al

[windspeed36]

- how many is large? Just curious

That's something I always wonder..particually when your switching between forums - here i've got the idea that for you guys large is like 750-1000 people whereas on PSW large for them is around 10,000 people..

[Al Poulin]

Probably my tops are lacking. During larger venues I have to push them to just-before-limiting to get the sound I need. Which is why I was thinking of picking up two more RCF 312's so I can turn these down a little and have more coverage.

So I'm curious if i'm on the right path buying two more of the exact same tops, or getting something else.

If you get tops that are capable of more SPL than your current 312As, you're then going to find you don't have enough SPL from your subs. The LS720P was designed by Yorkville to be matched 1 to 1 with the NX55P. Given that the 312As have approximately the same SPL capability as the NX55P, the 312As and LS720Ps should be close to a perfect match output wise when properly configured. I am very surprised your tops are limiting before your subs. Something is wrong somewhere in your setup. I would guess overall EQ settings or gain settings on each top/sub.

Al

[akillj]

In response to Evolved, I'm actually very pleased with this setup, it's gotten me though every gig i've been though without issues. (I've done school get together's with over 1,500+ people in a gym) <-- This was one of the situations I got through, however my RCF's were near-limiting.

In response to Al Poulin, I don't EQ my system much unless it's necessary for the track i'm playing (Poorly recorded or something).
I don't think anything's wrong with my setup as far as bass boosting or improper EQ'ing goes, as I never do that.

My RCF's limit when I know they probably will, not prematurely. (I'm talking gain ~3/4+ up). From there I just turn my subs up and they sound nice. The reason I was thinking of buying another pair was just so I can turn my current two tops down , and have the other two at the same level , so nothing is near-limiting. And with that I could achieve more coverage during large venues. (By which to me, I'm talking ~500 kids in a school gym during a dance).

[Al Poulin]

500 kids in a gym requires more than a pair of 312As and 720Ps to be done right IMO. I can certainly imagine your tops (and probably subs too) were near or into limiting with almost 1500 kids. I would never attemp anything like that... A compact pair of tops and subs are not meant for this size of application.

A pair of 312As and 720Ps can comfortably handle wedding type events up to 300-400 people IMO. (this depends on other factors of course but just approx.) For anything bigger than that ***and especially teens in a gym** you need more capable subs and tops. Something like a pair of EF500Ps on tops of a pair of LS801Ps (for example) would handle such events much better. Lighter powered tops with similar output and true 2'' horns would be RCF 522As or 722As (for example). Even some Yamaha DSR12s with a pair of the DSR18 subs would be a better choice for the bigger stuff.

Al

[akillj]

I understand your point, believe me. When I do dances with ~500 kids in a gym, my setup feels like it's "Just enough". ( Never had any issues where it was embarrassingly not enough ).

If I had the money for the 522A's or the 722A's i'd be all over them. But money's tight. And yeah you're right, my setup was just-before limiting the whole time. Which is why I was wondering if it would be efficient to just pickup another pair of my 312's and give them all some room to breathe.

And when it comes around, if I absolutely need to bring my stuff that loud, i'm more comfortable with near-limiting my Ls720p's then my rcf's, imo. Due to the amazing 2&10 warranty it comes with.

[Al Poulin]

I understand your point, believe me. When I do dances with ~500 kids in a gym, my setup feels like it's "Just enough". ( Never had any issues where it was embarrassingly not enough ).

If I had the money for the 522A's or the 722A's i'd be all over them. But money's tight. And yeah you're right, my setup was just-before limiting the whole time. Which is why I was wondering if it would be efficient to just pickup another pair of my 312's and give them all some room to breathe.

And when it comes around, if I absolutely need to bring my stuff that loud, i'm more comfortable with near-limiting my Ls720p's then my rcf's, imo. Due to the amazing 2&10 warranty it comes with.


I agree you don't need to worry too much about the 720Ps as long as the limit light is just flashing here and there, just make sure you NEVER see the red clip light activate. If it does, this means you are feeding the subs way too much signal and you may cause damage (so immediately reduce your levels if you do see the red light). Yorkille's warranty is great, the 2 year covers everything - "even if you break it". The 10 year is for the cabinet itself - not the components or electronics.

Adding another set of 312As will help cover more people, but as mentionned you might feel you need more sub. At this point, you may want to close couple the 720Ps (one right next to the other side by side) and turn them around so they are shooting into a corner (or wall). This is called boundary loading and increases overall SPL noticeably. Try it and see.

Al

[akillj]

I agree you don't need to worry too much about the 720Ps as long as the limit light is just flashing here and there, just make sure you NEVER see the red clip light activate. If it does, this means you are feeding the subs way too much signal and you may cause damage (so immediately reduce your levels if you do see the red light). Yorkille's warranty is great, the 2 year covers everything - "even if you break it". The 10 year is for the cabinet itself - not the components or electronics.

Adding another set of 312As will help cover more people, but as mentionned you might feel you need more sub. At this point, you may want to close couple the 720Ps (one right next to the other side by side) and turn them around so they are shooting into a corner (or wall). This is called boundary loading and increases overall SPL noticeably. Try it and see.

Al



Yeah I know to never send a clipped signal to my equipment. And yeah "Even if you break it" thing is amazing. I've never seen a company back up their product(s) to that extent, was one of the reasons I bought it.

And yes I know how to boundary load when necessary :D

Thank you for the information, you've been a great help :D